Thank-you as a Mum of a 14 year old boy I’m very present to the value of you advocating like this. Cheering you on! Encouraging you to make more podcasts and speak more as a positive example for boys and men. You’re such a good influence that is needed.
My pleasure. I played your podcast interview with Paul Brunson so my son and we then spoke about male intimacy and permission to be sensitive. How wonderful is that! Don’t get me started on the need for emotional regulation for all humans. Your voice is needed and on point. 🥰 I think I’m a super fan lol
As a writer myself I can imagine how much of you went into this piece Jordan. Thank you for writing it and then gifting it to us all. Thank you for standing up for boys and men in the grey areas that many swear are simply black or white. Thank you for your courage to speak about things that many others dare not (myself included). You always help me feel braver and I know i'm not the only one. I love to be challenged and inspired by your words. I feel blessed to know and love you. What a gift you are to this world. Young men are already being shown another way by seeing who you are and what you stand for....I've said it before but I can always hear your Ancestors cheering. Shine on xxx
I find this view fascinating, but i struggle with elements of it. There were many boys and men I have known, loving families, wealthy living conditions, educated, looked after, whom because of their views and affiliations on the internet, I knew would harm me if I were ever caught vulnerable, and in some cases did. From personal experience, a purely internet driven motive sadly feels tangible, in-spite of a healthy upbringing.
Jordan I genuinely wish I could share your words, wisdom, questions and empathy with every single educator in this land. I am the mother of two boys (18 and 21) and have worked in “behaviour”work in schools, almost entirely with boys. As a woman I am viscerally aware that there is a lot wrong with how women are treated in society. There is also so much wrong with how we, as a society treat boys and young men. We label them as naughty, tell them that they are “toxic”, tell them to “man-up” whilst all the while expecting them to be “in touch with their emotions”. They don’t know which way is up. The massive majority of young men are wonderful (even with their hoods up and ear pods in), they are kind and they are funny, they love hard and hurt quietly, often privately. Just like you say, they are human. I wish the education system in particular treated them as such. Just like every one of us, they want to be seen and heard, not labelled and dismissed. Right now I think you are one of the best voices on this that there is, please keep talking. We took my boys to see Rizzle Kicks when they were young, they sang and danced and laughed and grew up thinking you were “cool”. Now they, I, their friends (both girls and boys) listen to your voice because you are human. Thank you ❤️
Great piece exploring the nuance of something very delicate that's been thrust into the public opinion arena. The word that kept reverberating around my head as I read was 'dehumanised' - initially I was going to comment here about how women are being dehumanised en masse, but your words have given me pause and I think the whole of humanity is being dehumanised by social media, actually. One for me to chew on.
You have essentially summed up the reason for my PhD research here. Yes, male violence against women is a very real issue that deserves as much (if not more) attention as it gets. But as you say, men are more likely to be stabbed by other men. So, why aren’t we looking at the root causes that are leading boys and young men to such violent acts? I believe so much of it is down to boys and men being told that they do not matter anymore and there being so little opportunity for emotional connection with other men. No wonder so many boys and men are struggling with their mental health.
Feminism is about equality and, whilst there are still huge strides to take in terms of women’s rights across the world, I think the ways inequality affects men are being ignored, particularly in relation to mental health (which I would argue is the root of a lot of 'male issues'). The justification for this being that ‘patriarchy privileges men’, with no acknowledgement that many men are also victims of patriarchy. So thank you, Jordan, for having the courage to put your head above the parapet and share what might be an ‘unpopular opinion’ but a very valid one. You are an inspiration.
(In all seriousness though I find your writing helps me to soften and I’m in much need of insight of how not to alienate my 14 year old brother who being ND, still living with our very abusive mother and occupying some of the gaming and hobby spaces he does online seems primed to become a misogynist - it’s a delicate balancing act)
As a father of boys, I am pleased that people such as yourself are brave enough to put your hand up and say ‘what about the boys?’ It is my job to be a role model to my sons, but I worry greatly about the vacuum there must be in so many young people’s lives if those negative, radicalising forces, are able to have such an impact.
I think it is that worry that has left me with the same feeling for a couple of months now, every time I’ve heard you speak. I wish you had a platform that could reach more young men and boys. I have looked and listened to many reasonable people discussing the issues you touch on, but no one makes me feel as comfortable as you, that the tone and take you have is the correct one. I can’t think of anyone I’d like more to fill the void for both parents and the young people.
Loved this piece. I’m a mother of a boy, and a girl, and I was often unpleasant to boys myself as a teen. I’m a lifelong feminist too, grappling with these big questions all my life. For me the show insinuates that the Dads upbringing is a kind of secondhand trauma for Jamie. We are told that he once pulled down a shed in a temper remember. You get the feeling he’s never dealt with his own fathers neglect and abuse of him and has locked it away, where it occasionally seeps out. And the mam understands him and so colludes by constantly cheering him up and smoothing it over. Subtle, indirect but devastating impact on the next generation when they are caught up in the confluence of modern teendom, identity and relationships. I was poleaxed by the show, so much to keep thinking about, and you have raised so many important points in your peice.
At first I was like “We multiply thoughts by dividing opinions.” Wow! What a writer!
Then I was like *Hhmmm this feels a bit like a ‘Not all men’ argument.*
But I’m landing on a *Humans: not girls and boys, not men and women, not one or the other but both. All violence is wrong. All inequality is wrong.*
There’s a lot to be said in terms of gender imbalances and I understand that you probably feel you need to advocate for young men, in the way I feel the need to advocate for all women. However, feminism is the belief that genders are equal, not that girls are superior to boys, and that’s what we need to fight for: eradicating violence against anyone.
Lots of food for thought which I appreciate. A great piece x
I spoke to my adult child about the programme and their take was that the issues adolescent males face in the world in real life and online, and which this programme focusses heavily on, are the 'limb' of the problem. But it doesn't really address the 'beating heart' of the matter which is so much bigger than only the bad side of social media and online radicalization. It starts with parents who are doing their imperfect best with no larger community around to lean on (the village as you so rightly say) and who have no real awareness of their own emotional disregulation (perhaps they're better than their parents, but they still carry and pass on heaps of unhealed trauma). This happens within the patriarchal society we inhabit which compunds the problem - boys are not given the space to be emotional, to even understand what they are feeling. They have to be seen to be strong and 'manly' because otherwise they will get the s**t kicked out of them. This is often compunded by overworked, absent fathers and no strong, yet gentle, validating male figures in their lives. That you use your platform to articulate the issues and have some real insight is so encouraging. I hope that you reach some boys who are adrift and help them see that it's a strength to be vulnerable. You are a beacon of hope
It's so easy to get stuck in a narrative of gender and forget about being human first and gendered second. Basic expectations of society, kindness, support, love etc are things we should all hold in high regard and be able to express. Community and connection are so important and a big part of what helps us function. This is why those who don't have that sense, who feel alone are the ones most vulnerable to any kind of mindset, extremism and cults (even religion but I won't go there). We need to create spaces for connections. For understanding of each other. Not everyone has to be your best friend for sure, but they are still a person and they are still a part of the world and a right to be that. Definitely more hugs are needed. Full stop. Physical hugs and theoretical ones.
I'm so with you, at times I can be extraordinarily sexist and belittling towards men, and I do my best to recognise when I do, and I do it by listing the many names of the man men who have been extraordinarily human towards me. I was assaulted recently and I've been bare angry with everyone, but I still hold compassion for men, women, everyone while still being able to call out injustices like I've experienced and had to school a few guys in the parking lot of a rave while also schooling a few gurls at their complicity as well, here for the balancing and the advocating for a more fair reflection of our capacity for hate,violence within all of us and a genuine desire to actually heal and help eachother just do better, cause of that we are also abundantly capable too.
What a powerful message. I’m really sorry that happened to you that’s fucking shit. If this message is anything to go by, you have a wonderful soul and I appreciate the connection. For real. Thank you.
Yes! Thank you for this nuanced, heartfelt piece. I welcome the discussion, or even awareness that Adolescence has kicked off, and as much as I think it's brilliant TV, I share your views on its shortfalls. We urgently need more uplifting stories. The narrative about toxic (or, for that matter, any kind of 'insert label here') masculinity doesn't help anyone. I hope we can soon move on and think about our shared humanity instead.
Thank you, my newly 9 year old son is navigating a world we often feel ill-equipped to support him in. Alongside a younger sister who has a whole different world of challenges to face. Your words are hope and understanding, love to guide them all.
Thank you for this piece ❤️ I’ve found one of the main issues is the idea that victim and perpetrator are always separate identities, when in reality we all experience some degree of both. I studied Women, Violence and Conflict at a post graduate level, and it was interesting to see what kinds of solutions emerge after civil wars when it’s impossible to incarcerate everyone who has caused harm, yet justice needs to be felt to transition to peace. This led to processes such as truth and reconciliation commissions, disarmament, demobilisation and re-integration and different forms of reparative and restorative justice. They are not perfect but they help us get away from the idea that people are only ever good or bad. They allow people to be seen as full human beings. This can be applied to preventative and justice processes during peacetime - if you’re interested I’m currently reading Why would feminists trust the police? by Leah Cowan which highlights these issues, and looking into the restorative justice programs which exist in the U.K. They lend a different perspective to what we can do about the issues raised without compromising the complexities of them.
Thank-you as a Mum of a 14 year old boy I’m very present to the value of you advocating like this. Cheering you on! Encouraging you to make more podcasts and speak more as a positive example for boys and men. You’re such a good influence that is needed.
Wow, thank you. Big love to you.
My pleasure. I played your podcast interview with Paul Brunson so my son and we then spoke about male intimacy and permission to be sensitive. How wonderful is that! Don’t get me started on the need for emotional regulation for all humans. Your voice is needed and on point. 🥰 I think I’m a super fan lol
As a writer myself I can imagine how much of you went into this piece Jordan. Thank you for writing it and then gifting it to us all. Thank you for standing up for boys and men in the grey areas that many swear are simply black or white. Thank you for your courage to speak about things that many others dare not (myself included). You always help me feel braver and I know i'm not the only one. I love to be challenged and inspired by your words. I feel blessed to know and love you. What a gift you are to this world. Young men are already being shown another way by seeing who you are and what you stand for....I've said it before but I can always hear your Ancestors cheering. Shine on xxx
Loving you, Donna
I find this view fascinating, but i struggle with elements of it. There were many boys and men I have known, loving families, wealthy living conditions, educated, looked after, whom because of their views and affiliations on the internet, I knew would harm me if I were ever caught vulnerable, and in some cases did. From personal experience, a purely internet driven motive sadly feels tangible, in-spite of a healthy upbringing.
Jordan I genuinely wish I could share your words, wisdom, questions and empathy with every single educator in this land. I am the mother of two boys (18 and 21) and have worked in “behaviour”work in schools, almost entirely with boys. As a woman I am viscerally aware that there is a lot wrong with how women are treated in society. There is also so much wrong with how we, as a society treat boys and young men. We label them as naughty, tell them that they are “toxic”, tell them to “man-up” whilst all the while expecting them to be “in touch with their emotions”. They don’t know which way is up. The massive majority of young men are wonderful (even with their hoods up and ear pods in), they are kind and they are funny, they love hard and hurt quietly, often privately. Just like you say, they are human. I wish the education system in particular treated them as such. Just like every one of us, they want to be seen and heard, not labelled and dismissed. Right now I think you are one of the best voices on this that there is, please keep talking. We took my boys to see Rizzle Kicks when they were young, they sang and danced and laughed and grew up thinking you were “cool”. Now they, I, their friends (both girls and boys) listen to your voice because you are human. Thank you ❤️
I’m lost for words. What a message. Thank you.
Great piece exploring the nuance of something very delicate that's been thrust into the public opinion arena. The word that kept reverberating around my head as I read was 'dehumanised' - initially I was going to comment here about how women are being dehumanised en masse, but your words have given me pause and I think the whole of humanity is being dehumanised by social media, actually. One for me to chew on.
You have essentially summed up the reason for my PhD research here. Yes, male violence against women is a very real issue that deserves as much (if not more) attention as it gets. But as you say, men are more likely to be stabbed by other men. So, why aren’t we looking at the root causes that are leading boys and young men to such violent acts? I believe so much of it is down to boys and men being told that they do not matter anymore and there being so little opportunity for emotional connection with other men. No wonder so many boys and men are struggling with their mental health.
Feminism is about equality and, whilst there are still huge strides to take in terms of women’s rights across the world, I think the ways inequality affects men are being ignored, particularly in relation to mental health (which I would argue is the root of a lot of 'male issues'). The justification for this being that ‘patriarchy privileges men’, with no acknowledgement that many men are also victims of patriarchy. So thank you, Jordan, for having the courage to put your head above the parapet and share what might be an ‘unpopular opinion’ but a very valid one. You are an inspiration.
What a brilliant assessment. Thank you.
Not Jordan making me care about men again
This made me chuckle out loud
(In all seriousness though I find your writing helps me to soften and I’m in much need of insight of how not to alienate my 14 year old brother who being ND, still living with our very abusive mother and occupying some of the gaming and hobby spaces he does online seems primed to become a misogynist - it’s a delicate balancing act)
Wow. I feel you. He’ll be shapeshifting for a while yet. Sorry to hear about circumstances, that’s tough. Big love to you
I really enjoyed your take on this, Jordan.
As a father of boys, I am pleased that people such as yourself are brave enough to put your hand up and say ‘what about the boys?’ It is my job to be a role model to my sons, but I worry greatly about the vacuum there must be in so many young people’s lives if those negative, radicalising forces, are able to have such an impact.
I think it is that worry that has left me with the same feeling for a couple of months now, every time I’ve heard you speak. I wish you had a platform that could reach more young men and boys. I have looked and listened to many reasonable people discussing the issues you touch on, but no one makes me feel as comfortable as you, that the tone and take you have is the correct one. I can’t think of anyone I’d like more to fill the void for both parents and the young people.
Loved this piece. I’m a mother of a boy, and a girl, and I was often unpleasant to boys myself as a teen. I’m a lifelong feminist too, grappling with these big questions all my life. For me the show insinuates that the Dads upbringing is a kind of secondhand trauma for Jamie. We are told that he once pulled down a shed in a temper remember. You get the feeling he’s never dealt with his own fathers neglect and abuse of him and has locked it away, where it occasionally seeps out. And the mam understands him and so colludes by constantly cheering him up and smoothing it over. Subtle, indirect but devastating impact on the next generation when they are caught up in the confluence of modern teendom, identity and relationships. I was poleaxed by the show, so much to keep thinking about, and you have raised so many important points in your peice.
Incredible, thank you.
At first I was like “We multiply thoughts by dividing opinions.” Wow! What a writer!
Then I was like *Hhmmm this feels a bit like a ‘Not all men’ argument.*
But I’m landing on a *Humans: not girls and boys, not men and women, not one or the other but both. All violence is wrong. All inequality is wrong.*
There’s a lot to be said in terms of gender imbalances and I understand that you probably feel you need to advocate for young men, in the way I feel the need to advocate for all women. However, feminism is the belief that genders are equal, not that girls are superior to boys, and that’s what we need to fight for: eradicating violence against anyone.
Lots of food for thought which I appreciate. A great piece x
I spoke to my adult child about the programme and their take was that the issues adolescent males face in the world in real life and online, and which this programme focusses heavily on, are the 'limb' of the problem. But it doesn't really address the 'beating heart' of the matter which is so much bigger than only the bad side of social media and online radicalization. It starts with parents who are doing their imperfect best with no larger community around to lean on (the village as you so rightly say) and who have no real awareness of their own emotional disregulation (perhaps they're better than their parents, but they still carry and pass on heaps of unhealed trauma). This happens within the patriarchal society we inhabit which compunds the problem - boys are not given the space to be emotional, to even understand what they are feeling. They have to be seen to be strong and 'manly' because otherwise they will get the s**t kicked out of them. This is often compunded by overworked, absent fathers and no strong, yet gentle, validating male figures in their lives. That you use your platform to articulate the issues and have some real insight is so encouraging. I hope that you reach some boys who are adrift and help them see that it's a strength to be vulnerable. You are a beacon of hope
It's so easy to get stuck in a narrative of gender and forget about being human first and gendered second. Basic expectations of society, kindness, support, love etc are things we should all hold in high regard and be able to express. Community and connection are so important and a big part of what helps us function. This is why those who don't have that sense, who feel alone are the ones most vulnerable to any kind of mindset, extremism and cults (even religion but I won't go there). We need to create spaces for connections. For understanding of each other. Not everyone has to be your best friend for sure, but they are still a person and they are still a part of the world and a right to be that. Definitely more hugs are needed. Full stop. Physical hugs and theoretical ones.
I'm so with you, at times I can be extraordinarily sexist and belittling towards men, and I do my best to recognise when I do, and I do it by listing the many names of the man men who have been extraordinarily human towards me. I was assaulted recently and I've been bare angry with everyone, but I still hold compassion for men, women, everyone while still being able to call out injustices like I've experienced and had to school a few guys in the parking lot of a rave while also schooling a few gurls at their complicity as well, here for the balancing and the advocating for a more fair reflection of our capacity for hate,violence within all of us and a genuine desire to actually heal and help eachother just do better, cause of that we are also abundantly capable too.
What a powerful message. I’m really sorry that happened to you that’s fucking shit. If this message is anything to go by, you have a wonderful soul and I appreciate the connection. For real. Thank you.
many men*
Yes! Thank you for this nuanced, heartfelt piece. I welcome the discussion, or even awareness that Adolescence has kicked off, and as much as I think it's brilliant TV, I share your views on its shortfalls. We urgently need more uplifting stories. The narrative about toxic (or, for that matter, any kind of 'insert label here') masculinity doesn't help anyone. I hope we can soon move on and think about our shared humanity instead.
Thank you, my newly 9 year old son is navigating a world we often feel ill-equipped to support him in. Alongside a younger sister who has a whole different world of challenges to face. Your words are hope and understanding, love to guide them all.
Big love
Thank you for this piece ❤️ I’ve found one of the main issues is the idea that victim and perpetrator are always separate identities, when in reality we all experience some degree of both. I studied Women, Violence and Conflict at a post graduate level, and it was interesting to see what kinds of solutions emerge after civil wars when it’s impossible to incarcerate everyone who has caused harm, yet justice needs to be felt to transition to peace. This led to processes such as truth and reconciliation commissions, disarmament, demobilisation and re-integration and different forms of reparative and restorative justice. They are not perfect but they help us get away from the idea that people are only ever good or bad. They allow people to be seen as full human beings. This can be applied to preventative and justice processes during peacetime - if you’re interested I’m currently reading Why would feminists trust the police? by Leah Cowan which highlights these issues, and looking into the restorative justice programs which exist in the U.K. They lend a different perspective to what we can do about the issues raised without compromising the complexities of them.